Original vs. reproduction Talon zipper

 

 

 

 

I just bought a repro Talon zipper to have as a backup for a jacket of mine whose zip is looking like it may start going bad soon.  The repro bears the current Talon  box T logo on the back. It’s not a bad looking job from a little bit away, same shape, same size, and I’m sure once in a jacket would probably pass muster, more-or-less.  But compared to the original, there is no comparison.  The shape of the slider is different, with curved edges, while the original is made up of straight lines. The puller is close, but is longer, as it mounts higher. The cover on the slider with the “Talon” script is wider, which accounts for a change of shape of the cutout on the slider.  The quality of the casting is much rougher on the reproduction. Instead of using one of Talon’s several distinctive stop-box designs, the repro goes for a modern, small stopbox.  I know it’s not period correct, but I do appreciate the plastic(melted?) reinforcement at the base of the zipper tape on the reproduction.  It’s a detail found on modern zippers, but one which I would consider an improvement over the zippers of the ’30s. So many original zippers I have have failed at that point.

The verdict? This particular repro was cheap and will do in a pinch. It works well, and for putting in a vintage jacket or a vintage style-one, it certainly would look better than a modern off-the shelf YKK.  However, if true period accuracy is what you’re after, I’d say you’d be better off going with the NOS zips from Mash Japan.Photobucket

Kwik Zipper

 

 

This Kwik slide fastener dates from roughly 1932-1936. It is found on a men’s bathing suit with a zip-off tank top, a detail found in the transitional period between one or two piece suits and the topless look for men of the mid ’30s through present. The patent numbers correspond to patents no. 1814244, granted in 1931, patent no. 1752111, granted in 1930 and 1761385, granted in 1930. Photobucket

Original A2 leather jacket

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/281075219233

This vintage A-2 jacket was made in 1942 as part of the Dubow contract no. 27798. It started out life as a russet horsehide, but was reissued during the war and re-dyed a seal brown at that point. The jacket bears stitch marks from a squadron patch on the breast, and from bars on the epaulettes. Also visible are stitch marks from a previous name tag, slightly offset from the current one, which reads W.S. Butler. In 1983, the jacket received a new Talon zipper, and a brightly colored lining. The zipper still works fine, but you may want to replace it for authenticity’s sake. The replacement liner is ugly, in poor condition, and should definitely be replaced. During the re-line, the jacket lost its original contract tag and leather hanger. I believe the knits, or at least the cuff knits, may be replacements from this period as well. The leather bears signs of heavy use in the collar and shoulders. Otherwise, the leather is in surprisingly nice condition, and has been freshly conditioned. With a chest measurement of 22″, the jacket fits at around a size 40 to 42.

Chest (pit to pit): 22″ (doubled = 44″)
Shoulder to Shoulder: 18″
Shoulder to end of knit: 24-1/2″
Length down back (bottom of collar to end of knit): 23″

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Soo Woolen Mills plaid hunting coat

For more Soo hunting coats, see: Soo1 and Soo2

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271166971319
This vintage hunting coat was made by Soo Woolen mills. It is a later variant on the ’30s Soo mackinaw I’m also selling, and while detailing changed over the years, that distinctive collar is still present.

Chest (pit to pit): 24″
Shoulder to Shoulder: 19″
Sleeve (shoulder to cuff): 24″
Length (base of collar to hem): 29″

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Midwest Outerwear plaid hunting coat

http://www.ebay.com/itm/281073941433

This vintage hunting coat was made by Midwest Outerwear in the 1970s. It has a red taped Talon main zipper, and a nylon toothed chain pull zip on the pocket. The jacket has been heavily worn, with tears to the lining, staining.

Chest (pit to pit): 20″
Shoulder to Shoulder: 16″
Sleeve (shoulder to cuff): 22″

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Black CHP jacket

This one I’m keeping for myself.  It’s a Langlitz Columbia / California Highway Patrol style jacket.  7 pounds of leather.

A lot of people out there buying modern high end reproductions of ’30s jacket styles talk about how authentic their jackets are. To prove this point they reference how their jackets weigh eight pounds and can stand up on their own, how they can stop bullets. How anything that’s not made from the worlds stiffest 4oz horsehide is “mall jacket quality”. That kind of thing.  The more I hear about this kind of thing, and the more original jackets I handle, the more I’m convinced these people have never seen an actual vintage jacket.  Most of the vintage jackets I’ve handled clock in at three and a half pounds, post conditioning. The counterargument people will use against that is that they’ve lost moisture and therefore weight over the years, and I know that these jackets do.  But they usually put on several ounces after conditioner is applied to bring them back to their original state, not four and a half pounds.

Back to the jacket at hand.  Like I say, clocking in at 7 pounds, which is a lot for such a short jacket, it’s almost uncomfortable to wear, so sizing is important. This one is a good fit for me, tight through the body, but not uncomfortably so.  A big complaint I have with modern production motorcycle jackets I’ve tried on is their length. As with seemingly everything these days, they’ve become longer and longer, gradually lengthening to close to the length of a suit jacket.

There was a reason that old utility jackets, denim jackets, and motorcycle jackets hit the wearer right at the beltline.  When you sit down, or ride a motorcycle, or do anything that requires any action, a long jacket will either bunch up or ride up.  With a heavy leather jacket like this, the riding up scenario is more likely. With a jacket like this, the bottom of the jacket lines up just about with where you bend in the middle, which means no matter how you move, the jacket stays right where it should.  Some modern jacket makers try to get around this length issue by putting a two-way zipper on their product, allowing the jacket to be opened at the bottom. It’s a good solution, but I fine that more often than not, makers continue the “V” shape of the jacket all the way to the bottom, which means (for me, at least) they are either uncomfortably tight across the hips, or that you have to size up, making them too baggy in the chest.  Give me an old fashioned waist length jacket any day.

You may notice on the long half-belt jackets of the ’30s-’50s that the zipper starts a good six to eight inches higher than the bottom hem, and that on older suit jackets and overcoats, the button stance was higher.  This allowed you, even with a longer length, to keep your jacket buttoned or zipped, keeping the cold and wind out.

This jacket dates from the 1970s, and has a heavy gauge Talon main zipper.  It has zipped sleeve cuffs with mouton panels at the end to keep a tight seal when fully zipped. I like my jackets on the simple side without a lot of hardware. It’s easy for a motorcycle jacket to get into punk or fetish territory in a hurry, especially one like this.  For that reason, I like the concealed lapel studs, the simple pockets, and the un-fussy yoked back.  It is well detailed, but practical, and thought out. I’m not in love with the belt loops, as I have no intention of wearing a garrison belt with it, but I can live with them. The jacket came with a snap on mouton panel, which covers the rider’s chest and throat while the jacket is worn with the lapels open.

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Sakowitz Bros WWII army officer’s Shawl Collar Mackinaw

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271165230262

This vintage WWII Army officer’s mackinaw coat has a double breasted front, a shawl collar, epaulettes, and a buttoned belt. It was tailored by Sakowitz Bros. of Houston, Texas. It is fully lined, with quilted shoulders.

Chest: 22″
Shoulder to Shoulder: 18″
Shoulder to Cuff: 24-1/2″
Length (top of collar to hem): 34″

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Wimbledon WWII army officer’s shawl collar mackinaw

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271165233525

This vintage officer’s mackinaw was custom tailored by Wimbledon from fine kersey wool. It has a large shawl collar, epaulettes and a belt. There are wide differences example to example when it comes to these mackinaws- this one has the quilted liner, a square-ended belt, slightly larger buttons and no sleeve adjuster tabs.

Chest (pit to pit): 22″
Shoulder to Shoulder: 19″
Sleeve (shoulder to cuff): 25″
Length (top of collar to hem): 36″

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1942 Shawl Collar army officer’s mackinaw

http://www.ebay.com/itm/281072588867

This vintage army officer’s shawl collar mackinaw was issued in 1942. It was made by the ambiguous “Mfr. 478″ and issued by the Philadelphia quartermaster’s depot. If features a pointed end belt, a plain liner, and no sleeve adjuster tabs. The belt loops are positioned on the front of the coat, whereas on the other examples I am currently selling they are positioned further back.

Chest (pit to pit): 21-1/2″
Shoulder to Shoulder: 18″
Sleeve (shoulder to cuff): 26-1/2″
Length (top of collar to hem): 38”

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